PvP? Questions and possible designing.

[Cristiona]

Because you're not patrolling? You're calling out a specific person, and not just your average thug, but a fellow hero. You might be an efficient hero, but you're still going to take your time, since you're meeting at an arranged place for an epic rumble.

Hero vs Hero: Serious Business.

[Ryme]

I guess the thought is that it mitigates the value of potential future items that increase efficiency, for instance, an IotM that removes 1 minute per turn.

As much as I'm sure it would be popular, I don't think I can ever have a donation item that affects turn duration. Being able to trade money for turns is likely to alienate the non-donating players.

[neocamp22]

I had an idea.... (keep in mind I have to read the thread still)

What about co-op type battles?

I don't know quite what the mechanics would be, but it would be some sort of non-ladder melee, where people would get eliminated, and the last standing team would be the winner. It could be either small little games (with only 40 people), or possibly game-wide battles, with maybe 5-10 (or more) teams. Then the teams would get some sort of non-benificial e-penis only items (maybe actually only given to the "team"itself, and not distributed to players). There could be ways to bring in some really cool flavor stuff into this.


Taking a step back, what I'm describing is interclan pvp. 0_0


Edit:(Which brings me to clans. Any ideas for that type of mechanic)

[TheK3vin]

This may be a completely impossible suggestion, or else I would expect someone would've done it by now, but why not just have an actual fight between to people? You could send a pvp invite, and you'd just do a turn-based fight. You could have multiple fights going at once so you're not just sitting waiting for the other person to respond, and winning could net you some of their chips, some of their items, or something else, depending on what you're fighting for (Chips, items, chips and items, etc.).

[MagiNinjA]

I don't think that's quite as easy as you think. That'd require the other person you're battling to actually fight back with skills, which would inevitably just take up a long time...also, if you're deadlocked into PvP battles, equip switching wouldn't work I'd assume.

[IcyFreak]

Yeah, I mentioned it above. Pokemon FTW? Although, I don't know about multiple fights at once. Can't fight two monsters at once either, you'll get whacked from behind.

[TheK3vin]

Well of course they'd be seperate fights, it's not like itd be one big battle royale.

[MagiNinjA]

Ehhh, I'd say that it's way too basic for PvP. PvP should involve complex interaction. Not scripted defenses.

This is more PvM, but what if sometimes you randomly meet an NPC villain in areas if you're available to PvP? Just as an addition.

Hmm. What if you implemented alignments? Then in an area, if someone else last adventured there, you can fight them randomly if they aren't of the same alignment, or something like that. You can tie alignment to ascensions/dreams too, even.

[MagiNinjA]

Also, here's an idea for PVP!

You can attack the hideouts of other superheroes! Hideouts have HP/Strength/Barrier/Hull Integrity, and you can "engage combat" with another player's hideout defenses. If you bust it down within 10/20 rounds, you sabotage their base and probably take an otherwise worthless trophy. Maybe a personalized flag or something... or 3-4 tokens per battle. However, as per Pokemon Diamond, the other player can install traps and defensive robots to defend their base (as to not make the base smashing like "The base wall sits there. You whack it for 2 damage! The base wall sits there."

Maybe the tokens can be traded for stuff, like Hideout Trophies, Decreased Rest Time, more Hideout HP, a custom car that you can trick out (Hey, that's a new idea all in itself!) etc, etc.

Here's a possible list of class-specific stuff:

Gadgeteer
Defenses: Mechanical Wall, can buy lasers, missiles, robots, etc. Since they're Gadgeteers, maybe they can even MAKE defenses to trade and stuff.
Token: Sterling Silver Sprockets

Psion
Defenses: Psychic Barrier, can install illusions, psychic attacks, etc.
Token: Titanium Tarot Cards

Elementalist
Defenses: Earthen walls, flaming soldiers, icy spikes, you name it.
Token: Platinum Philosopher's Stone

Naturalist
Defenses: Walls of plants, maybe flying walls of locusts, etc.
Token: Something

You can then trade specific combinations of tokens for stuff. eg. 5 Tarot Cards = Therapist's Couch. Not to be confused with The Rapist's Couch, this lets you gain more PP whenever you rest. 10 Sterling Silver Sprockets = Silver Hood Ornament. A hood ornament for someone from the hood. Attached to a vehicle, initiative +10%.

etc, etc.

Maybe even inter-class fights, like each class has a class hall which the other classes can assault (and pepper).

Stolen from the ideas thread. Sorry. ^^;

[Ryme]

The narrative problem I have with Mr. Anderson's suggestion is that it doesn't really sound very heroic to go busting into other people's houses and taking their stuff. Potentially fun, maybe, but not exactly upstanding and noble.

Now I suppose it was adapted to something that's more of a game/competition/challenge, where heroes set up a little stash with the intention of tempting and potentially showing up other heroes who try to break in, that may be workable. There's gotta be honor among heroes, though.

This setup poses some interesting options, though. For instance, what if you could pick an item to put in the stash, and let other heroes know? The value of the item might magnify the defenses, so that more valuable stuff is harder to get in to? Or it would have to be such that any hero attempting to break in would have to put up an identical item as a stake so that if they lose it cost them instead? (so both sides are taking equal risks.)

[MagiNinjA]

Well, if heroes can eventually become villains like some of us want, then yeah.

The only problem I have with this is that there's no interaction with the hero, as opposed to fighting the hero itself.

[MagiNinjA]

There's no need for such drastic changes on Ryme's part, except writing new content.

City of Heroes released an expansion (City of Villains) to be able to play as a villain. However, think, what is usually the cause of becoming a villain? Starting as a hero, disgusted and then becoming a "fallen one". I don't think there is a need to change any name brand on TH even if we include villains.

Plus, having a villain opens up numerous possibilities...a lot of which I see in PvP. Minions vs. Heroes, or Villain(s) vs. League. Stuff like that. Perhaps being able to attain villain status requires some conditions, but I think it would add to the game.

[MagiNinjA]

I like Bob's story context. And then if you lose to a villain, real consequences occur. As a club myself, I think there should be penalties depending on the magnitude of attack.

[MagiNinjA]

Yes, but not everyone always farms. So it's not nice to all of the playerbase, which is a goal.

[TheK3vin]

Buying time = bad. Jick has found this to be true, Ryme has found this to be true, it's just not a good idea.

[Cristiona]

Awesomeness has flowed into my brain.

A simple explanation of why a hero would attack other heroes: they aren't heroes. They're villains! Villains beating up other villains isn't anything new (eliminate the competition), so it would fit. A player villain is just pretending to be a hero to consolidate his power and bump off the Mick. They're just tricking Rand.

Also, as a way to make it to limit griefing, don't let people loot each other, but rather, they take a trophy. Call it, perhaps, "A bit of $player's costume". I've played other games where you could get trophies (or nothing at all), and the PvP was still fun. Of course, I'm more diamond than club.

[Corrupt Shadow]

Yeah, I think there should be an adventure (say around level 15?) where one can choose to become bad or remain good.

Muwah-ha-ha-ha-ha!

[MagiNinjA]

Clearly something that is made upon victory. Like in Diablo II with the ears, if that reminds you of any fun.

[Cristiona]

Ah, yes... it was Diablo that did ears; I couldn't remember.

But, yeah, when I said "bit of costume", I meant an item that was created after combat. I don't want people stealing my Stovepipe Hat, let alone my Hero's Cape.

[Ryme]

From Questionario. Posted here so I don't lose it.

Hmm,
let me snip in an idea for PvP (I have a pretty clear idea for it, but I guess many do):
1.) It should definitely be real-time.
2.) There should be a small story to it to fit into the game but not hinder the game in any way! (not giving you a DISadvantage in the rest of the game)
3.) It could be an area that needs to be unlocked say at around level 10.
4.) In this new area you can then equip battle equipment that may not be used anywhere else and that equipment is maybe even only accessible from that area.
5.) you could be able to take a certain amount of specific items (attack,defend,heal,multi-use or single-use) with you, for attacking and defending. you could then choose two of these items (your choice if its one to defend and one to attack or both attack and so on) some weapons might even have a little defence. you could work with different attack types, like the elementals you already have! for example: one weapon has 5fire and 3acid damage. damage could be calculated with (strength/10 times amount of attacks that were not blocked) you could also select an "ability" like "glare of the ice warrior" that has a 1:3 chance of freezing the opponent and thus not allowing him to defend/attack. or attack (normal) super attack (damage dealt is times 1.7 but damage taken is times 2) or defend (damage dealt divided by 2 and damage taken divided by 1.7)
6.) Items could be bought with real chips or another currency only valid in that zone (gotta be a way to get that currency then tho)
7.) The zone could be like an arena where you could have the choice to fight any opponent, which will match you with the next available person then or to choose a max level so you don't have to fight against the real high levels!
8.) weapons for that area could either be drops from other areas or be bought (maybe even with stars?)
9.) you could also put in a 1player modus with highscores. so if you for example finish a quest you "find" your opponent which is then added to your 1player mode, each time you beat him he gets a little bit harder, based on the base-difficulty you could get points for every win.
10.) As for how to create a ranking for 2player mode or how to give medals for tournaments etc. I dont have such a clear picture yet, but if your interested let me know and I'll explain my ideas in more detail...

[MagiNinjA]

Please assume massive overjoyed excitement if I didn't quote and respond to it. It was getting...long. >.>

1.) It should definitely be real-time.

That doesn't help those with slower connections. But if that wasn't an issue, really, any mode would be fine.

3.) It could be an area that needs to be unlocked say at around level 10.

Eh, I like being able to battle at a lower level, but perhaps the area unlocking at level 10 could be a slightly different PvP. Maybe this PvP (with the special battle equipment in #4) could work slightly different, but with the same core system for lower levels.

5.)

Sounds nice, but the only qualm I have is that it doesn't allow for the player's character (e.g. Naturalist, Elementalist, etc.) to play into PvP. This is just "Choose from this stuff." If perhaps what you mentioned here was assigned to the classes, sure. Maybe. I think it makes sense if the class type you choose plays into PvP with some advantages and disadvantages, as well as player influenced decisions with the character.

6.) Items could be bought with real chips or another currency only valid in that zone (gotta be a way to get that currency then tho)

Sounds interesting. Battle tokens?

7.) The zone could be like an arena where you could have the choice to fight any opponent, which will match you with the next available person then or to choose a max level so you don't have to fight against the real high levels!

What if I want to fight the real high levels? I think if you go into PvP, there has to be some kind of discomfort. After all, you're fighting against others who are like yourself. And in real life? A nub hero could be mashed by the greatest villain of all time.

8.) weapons for that area could either be drops from other areas or be bought (maybe even with stars?)

Eh, I don't suggest stars to purchase these. I'm in the middle ground. Mainly because then donation items influence it. Then again, in KoL, donations usually influence PvP as well (e.g. Baios, Grimacite), but there are quite a few pieces of gear that can be earned without donations (Plexiglass, duct tape shirt).

9.) you could also put in a 1player modus with highscores. so if you for example finish a quest you "find" your opponent which is then added to your 1player mode, each time you beat him he gets a little bit harder, based on the base-difficulty you could get points for every win.

The only qualm I have (I like it! Especially if you tie it in as an additional optional sidequest!) is that newer players won't be able to reach leaderboards after long periods of time. But I can imagine that if you add some kind of factor that lessens this score, it'd be very nice. (Maybe some kind of score atrophy if you don't do the quest for a day?)

[MagiNinjA]

Just look to Pokemon's Battle Tower, a lot of what you want to implement is in it.

Survival mode (or something) is an interesting idea as an option. I don't think I would like it as much if it was the main center of PvP.

Like...fight a random boss for however many battles? Or do a Star Ocean type thing in the arena (totally forgot what city that's in) where you have a status ranking (A being the highest, E? being the lowest) signifying what stages of the challenge you've defeated. I could imagine a neat system where you fight a scaling monster. Then again, that'd be all about luck and stats...not so much involving skill.

[neocamp22]

Rationales for Fighting:
-Fight Club
-You fight other heroes because you disagree with there approach to being a hero, fights would be restricted to those outside of your reputation.
-?

[MagiNinjA]

Any possibilities of implementing MrAnderson's hideout attack idea?

[neocamp22]

Ahem. *Points to post on mod forum*
I actually came up with that independently :/

[TheK3vin]

Is it time for this thread to be locked now that we have the other PvP thread, or does this deserve its own topic?

[MagiNinjA]

I would merge both topics if it was possible, but right now it isn't. So this thread will pertain to PvP in general and that thread will be about this specific version implemented right now.

[Corrupt Shadow]

Ryme,

Can we possibly get an "opt-out" option similar to smashing/repairing the "hippy stone" on KoL?

[MagiNinjA]

You're technically opted out if you don't attack for 7 days.