Twilight Forums

We’re doing something a bit different with the yearly talismans for 2015.

There was a request a while back for a Wok item that made the game harder instead of easier. There ended up being four instead, inspired by some of the hardest games from our childhood.

These talismans have the usual positive effects, but their negative effect is far more drastic. Enemies gain entirely new talents that… aren’t even a little fair. They might steal your equipment, confuse your sidekick, or shut down an entire strategy.

Why Would I Ever Do That?
Naturally, the jump in difficulty merits some new rewards. The “simplest" is a scoring system for retcons using one of these talismans for the entire run, but there are others hiding out as well.

I, personally, freaking love them because they keep me on my toes.

But that’s not for everyone. If you’re satisfied by the difficulty level of the game or level of focus required by the game, these talismans aren’t a great choice.

What About People in 2016?
There’s also a non-donation talisman that unlocks the new content, although it might take a bit of work to dig up. That will be available stretching into the distant future.

In line with this game mode being an addition beyond just the donation talismans, there may easily be more content or even difficulty adjustments in the future.

Also, if the new approach to talismans is popular, we may see more talismans hitting this theme or similar avenues for added difficulty in the future.

Cheers!
Kinak

I decided to take a look at it before committing to a retcon. All I can say is so far it looks both delightful and unforgiving. Thanks for adding something I didn't know I needed because I am glad it is now here.

Gold Knight keeps returning a broken image for me in the wok. Popup's fine.

Yeah, I had a fistfight with myself about the naming. Should be good now. I won.

Valmo wrote:I decided to take a look at it before committing to a retcon. All I can say is so far it looks both delightful and unforgiving.

"Delightful and unforgiving" is a great description of what we were going for.

There were definitely times in testing, even as a fully tricked-out character, where fights completely got the better of me. But it's been a long time since I've enjoyed combat that much.

Valmo wrote:Thanks for adding something I didn't know I needed because I am glad it is now here.

You're very welcome

Cheers!
Kinak

Kinak wrote:They might steal your equipment, confuse your sidekick, or shut down an entire strategy.

Will I actually lose equipment? Or they just make us unequip it during the fight?

If I do actually lose equipment, do they also steal iotm?

Are scaling enemies also responsive to these talismans?

Sorry for so many questions:P

Also, like Cris said, image for gold knight bracelet is still broken in the wok page.

Patojonas wrote:

Kinak wrote:They might steal your equipment, confuse your sidekick, or shut down an entire strategy.

Will I actually lose equipment? Or they just make us unequip it during the fight?

If I do actually lose equipment, do they also steal iotm?

They can't actually steal donation items, no. As for the rest, what they do is pretty complex and I'm not going to spoil it all here.

Patojonas wrote:Are scaling enemies also responsive to these talismans?

This is sort of an annoying one (the situation, not the question). Most of the scaling fights aren't coded as normal combats, so they won't be effected.

If this causes any problems, I'll have to recode those scaling fights. Which I plan to do at some point (and will fix a bunch of other bugs), but will be a huge pain whenever I end up doing it.

Patojonas wrote:Also, like Cris said, image for gold knight bracelet is still broken in the wok page.

Gah! Sorry about that. Typo and, more importantly, let myself work sleepy and not doublecheck things.

Cheers!
Kinak

I adventure in the space station so I'm happy they aren't affected, no one wants to fight a prismatic robot lol (impossible fight)

This way villains become useful yet again, glad their disguises also drop the new stuff

Looked around and it looks like there's some terrific retcons to be had

The ones in ancient crypts (and presumably other oldest-and-strongest-emotion zones) *were* affected. Slap frusion plus two more "harder" modifiers on those, and it can go beyond nintendo hard.

Patojonas wrote:I adventure in the space station so I'm happy they aren't affected, no one wants to fight a prismatic robot lol (impossible fight)

Impossible or impossibly awesome?

Patojonas wrote:Looked around and it looks like there's some terrific retcons to be had

Glad you're enjoying it!

xKiv wrote:The ones in ancient crypts (and presumably other oldest-and-strongest-emotion zones) *were* affected. Slap frusion plus two more "harder" modifiers on those, and it can go beyond nintendo hard.

Yeah, those guys can get pretty darn mean.

And it is intended to effect them, although the Nyarlthotep enemies won't be yet, due to the scaling stuff I mentioned.

Cheers!
Kinak

Veteran of the Frog Wars

Score: 33,410
Time Bonus: 5,112 Seconds Remaining 5,112
Pullonium: 50% Contained 25,000
Mettle: 7 Mettle 7000
Total Points: 70,522

I hate Hard Mode the Mick. Thanks Kinak! You're a right bastard.

Isladar wrote:I hate Hard Mode the Mick. Thanks Kinak! You're a right bastard.

Congratulations and you'e welcome

Cheers!
Kinak

This is the best. I was all "Psh, it's probs not that hard" and then a ghost in the Cannonball Tavern hit me for 468 damage. This talisman will make my getting the Psion skills much more interesting, I love it.

Nommy wrote:This is the best. I was all "Psh, it's probs not that hard" and then a ghost in the Cannonball Tavern hit me for 468 damage.

Heh heh heh.

Nommy wrote:This talisman will make my getting the Psion skills much more interesting, I love it.

Woo! Glad you're liking it.

Cheers!
Kinak

Nommy wrote:This is the best. I was all "Psh, it's probs not that hard" and then a ghost in the Cannonball Tavern hit me for 468 damage. This talisman will make my getting the Psion skills much more interesting, I love it.

Did you know there's this thing called "resting" that you can do? It gives you HP and PP for just spending a few minutes! It's amazing!

Cristiona wrote:Did you know there's this thing called "resting" that you can do? It gives you HP and PP for just spending a few minutes! It's amazing!

Res...ting? Yeah, it's been a while since I've done any of that.

Cheers!
Kinak

I know what you're trying to do, Cris, and it will not work! You cannot stop the Too Hard hype train, it has no brakes!

It really is great, though. I've been using mechanics against some of the enemies that normally don't come up in my runs, these things called "Combat Items" and "Openings" and "The Run Away Button". It's nice to have variance in the fights, and even though the game feels harder, it doesn't seem to take longer to level.

I do have a question, though-Why do the modifiers disappear from baddie names after combat? I'm not saying that this happened to me, but I totally know a guy who knows a guy who keeps getting destroyed by the baddie's first attack and then never getting to see what the modifiers were.
(I tried to tell the guy I know to tell the guy he knows that all you had to do was read the opening fight text for clues, but from what I understand his response was "Reading is haaaaard")

Nommy wrote:I know what you're trying to do, Cris, and it will not work! You cannot stop the Too Hard hype train, it has no brakes!

It really is great, though. I've been using mechanics against some of the enemies that normally don't come up in my runs, these things called "Combat Items" and "Openings" and "The Run Away Button". It's nice to have variance in the fights, and even though the game feels harder, it doesn't seem to take longer to level.

Glad you're enjoying it. And sounds like it's working exactly as intended, which is a rare and marvelous thing

Nommy wrote:I do have a question, though-Why do the modifiers disappear from baddie names after combat? I'm not saying that this happened to me, but I totally know a guy who knows a guy who keeps getting destroyed by the baddie's first attack and then never getting to see what the modifiers were.
(I tried to tell the guy I know to tell the guy he knows that all you had to do was read the opening fight text for clues, but from what I understand his response was "Reading is haaaaard")

It's because, by the point it's displaying that final image, the modifiers have all been removed. Which is annoying, but I wasn't sure if it was annoying enough to spend the time fixing.

It annoys me a little, though, so if it's also bothering other people, I'll figure out some way to hack around it.

Cheers!
Kinak

I would just like to add that Ghostly foes suck diseased moose wang.

Nommy wrote: I do have a question, though-Why do the modifiers disappear from baddie names after combat? I'm not saying that this happened to me, but I totally know a guy who knows a guy who keeps getting destroyed by the baddie's first attack and then never getting to see what the modifiers were.
(I tried to tell the guy I know to tell the guy he knows that all you had to do was read the opening fight text for clues, but from what I understand his response was "Reading is haaaaard")

That's funny, because I totally know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who said the exact same thing. Small world.

I have been wondering one thing (not that it will apply to me anytime soon) ... to be in running for the too hard scoring, when do I need to equip the talisman? Anytime before first patrol?

Kinak wrote:Res...ting?

You are breaking that wrong. It's re-sting.

xKiv wrote:I have been wondering one thing (not that it will apply to me anytime soon) ... to be in running for the too hard scoring, when do I need to equip the talisman? Anytime before first patrol?

Yeah, you can do your pulls and fiddle with your equipment and stuff first.

It's specifically keyed into in-game time. So once your clock advances the first time, it's too late.

If you're ever unsure, you can equip the talisman. It'll give you a special message if you're in the running. Then, since you're at the very beginning of the run, it shouldn't be too painful to switch back if there was some sort of mistake.

Cheers!
Kinak

Okay, modifiers should display on an enemy even after you've killed them. Let me know about any weirdness.

erfMortium wrote:Not sure if this is a normal experience but it definitely was impossible for me to kill him at level 11 before the timer ran out. Any tips much appreciated!

He's definitely a jerk, I'll say that.

Cheers!
Kinak

"devouring talkative star-crossed lovers"

Seriously? I swear, talkative, frusion, and ghostly are pretty much a guaranteed death, which makes it really annoying when combined with devouring.

Then again, I didn't want those gloves du lac anyway.

Don't forget "devouring racing..." You won't die, but your stuff will.

Dear lord, that was awful!

Ran out of time somewhere around level 8. A 12 day, nearly 70 hour, 16 mettle run? 20 hours longer than my last maso run! Burned about three sold hours in-game just fighting the Mick. Over and over and over and over and over again until I finally figured out a way to keep his mad-mode-instant-never-miss-smack from killing me. But then, I guess cheesing the boss has a long history with old school hard games.

Whew. I need a break from all that. Probably one of the most frustrating runs, especially when I'd get strings of talkative and ghostly foes in a row. NCI was probably the worst since it so helpfully shows you your lack of progress.

Ah, Mad Mick...Good times.

It's interesting to hear other people's experiences. I'm usually relieved to see ghostly or talkative enemies, but arctic and confusing tend to destroy me. Even cloudy and lava wreck my days sometimes.

Cheers!
Kinak

Well, I was an Elemental, so things that stop spells were murder.

Arctic + Lava was also terrible because of the increased fumble odds.

Erfmortium wrote:I find frusion enemies to basically mean run away. You're pretty much likely to die anyway, especially when combined with cloudy.

Ah, yeah, frusion + cloudy would be pretty bad. At least the cloudy damage isn't against PP if I remember correctly.

Cristiona wrote:Well, I was an Elemental, so things that stop spells were murder.

Yeah, having to beat things to death isn't where you want to be there.

Cristiona wrote:Arctic + Lava was also terrible because of the increased fumble odds.

Ha! Yeah, I have to admit I just cackle maniacally everytime I see that combo

Cheers!
Kinak

All I can think is that Arctic will be wonderful as a Gadgeteer with max Self Balancing...